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Post by limburger59 on Oct 10, 2018 10:33:29 GMT -8
Not for QOTS or Beery players, though you are welcome to see what it is about. Though originally considered an optional TFT rule, not included with the original game, the consensus is that this rule is necessary to have equitable results. Optional Gunnery Review Board.pdf (28.92 KB) 7.6.2 RECEIVING CREDIT FOR AERIAL
VICTORIES CLAIMED BY YOUR
BOMBER'S GUNNERS.
Treat each enemy fighter shot down by a gunner on your bomber as a "Claim". Keep track of the claimed victories by each gunner during each mission. At the end of the mission during the Post Mission Debriefing roll on Table 7-6 below to determine if your numbered Air Force Victory Awards Board approved your credit. |
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Post by crushedhat on Oct 25, 2018 18:38:25 GMT -8
Just saw this, haven't been using it up to now. I assume the 'ace' bonus is based upon actual kills, whether accredited or not, as it results from experience gained rather than some distant panel recognizing your achievement.
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Post by limburger59 on Oct 26, 2018 10:53:38 GMT -8
Just saw this, haven't been using it up to now. I assume the 'ace' bonus is based upon actual kills, whether accredited or not, as it results from experience gained rather than some distant panel recognizing your achievement. I saw the opposite point. While debriefing, ten gunners all honestly swear that they hit that 109 with the yellow spinner. The panel takes that input, and determines who, if anyone, gets credit. The attacker at 12 o'clock passed through the entire squadron, and the two tail gunners who made the successful passing shots will share the credit as the 109 exploded after it had finished its run behind the formation; or they may learn that twenty minutes after the battle, a P-51 found that smoking 109 with the yellow spinner trying to return to base, and the fighter get the credit for the actual kill.
The reason Steve Dixon created the option was there were a lot of complaints when the game first came out that the excessive number of kills were ahistorical.
It is an option for TFT players. I use it to reduce the number of claims that are credited. Others may ignore it or see it in a different light. As I mentioned when I posted it, Beery or QOTS players may hear rumors of it, so they can now check it out, understand the occasional references in AARs, but not use it for QOTS.
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Post by crushedhat on Oct 28, 2018 17:23:07 GMT -8
I'm OK with not getting 'official' credit. But, no board can deny me the benefit of experience gained. As to the imbalance question, as I wrote elsewhere, there is a difference in the amount of fighter support received by thos using QotS v TFT. So I'm not too concerned if the kill ratios don't balance out between the two systems.
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Post by crushedhat on Oct 29, 2018 19:53:29 GMT -8
Gunners in TFT gain experience faster than gunners in QotS. But they also have a 33 1/3% (5 or 6 on 1D6) chance of going up against an enemy Ace versus 8% (11 or 12 on 2D6) for a QotS gunner, as well as having far less fighter support (Initial round/wave only versus every round/wave in QotS). TFT also has less chance of being hit by Flak than QotS. The two games are not equal; you choose your version and live with it.
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Post by limburger59 on Aug 19, 2019 16:45:22 GMT -8
But they also have a 33 1/3% (5 or 6 on 1D6) chance of going up against an enemy Ace versus 8% (11 or 12 on 2D6) for a QotS gunner, ... Not sure if this was entirely kosher, but I reckoned since I was going up against Romanian and Hungarian flyers and not Adolf's finest, I applied a -1 dr mod to determine pilot quality in the first mission. If you enjoyed the mission it is kosher. I have decided on similar tweaks both positive and negative before I take off, and personally for this mission I used the QOTS table. The TFT rationale is that the Aces had more skill in dodging the escort, so while the P-51s were driving off the average pilots the Aces were slashing through the bomber formation. That makes sense over 1944 Northern Europe. |
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Post by blaird on Jun 11, 2020 16:34:45 GMT -8
Not for QOTS or Beery players, though you are welcome to see what it is about. Though originally considered an optional rule, not included with the original game, the consensus is that this rule is necessary to have equitable results. With the large numbers of kills that were scored this campaign, I am tempted to move this to the mandatory rules, and have both QotS and TfT use it.  Thoughts? |
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Post by limburger59 on Jun 11, 2020 20:53:05 GMT -8
For TFT I have started using Joe Osentoski's tables resulting in fewer kills, plus the Gunnery Review Board. I am tired of all the ahistorical destroyed fighters. When I play QOTS with Spare Bombers I take the results as rolled, but I don’t have a problem with the Review Board for both games.
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Post by colbourne66 on Nov 15, 2021 3:57:58 GMT -8
Written before flying mission 80
MSGT Sharp clapped his hands together with glee as they left the briefing room
“Pisa! Just a short hop and a skip away. What a gift for my last mission! Gonna be a piece of cake!”
The other crew members smiled at his relief. “Yeah you lucked out with that one” S/SGT Searle agreed. “Lucky bastard.” The crew completed their final suiting up and headed to the plane.
As usual T/SGT Corossi was parked by the plane, with F/O Havens sat beside him.
“Still not left Havens?” 2LT Gatto called out?
“Still waiting for the skipper and Sharpie” Haven’s replied. “Should be a short trip?”
“OK. OK” Captain Hill called. “Let’s focus. We’ve got a new face with us today – T/SGT Red Weyburn, so let’s welcome him to the crew.” He turned to the new Engineer who was looking nervous. “You have big boots to fill Weyburn. But don’t let these jokers phase you – they’re mostly OK.” Hill paused for a moment. He’d had a nervous feeling all night. But as Havens had said, its just another mission. “OK It’s a short hop to Pisa and back. But don’t get slack – there’s still a lot of fighters about and the flak is supposed to be heavy. This is Sharpie and mine’s last mission, so….you know….”
“Just another mission, Sir” Havens called softly.
Captain Hill nodded. You heard the man. OK let’s go.”
80th Bombardment Squadron (H)
Mission Date: January 1944
Formation: High
Target: Pisa Rail Yard
# Missions this plane: 18
Crew = original crewmember
Crew =original crew of Hellzapoppin'
Crew = spare pool permanent assignment
Crew = Spare pool (temp)
Position Crewman Mission Kill credits[total] Awards SP
Pilot: Captain Hill 24 AM(x4), DFC (x2), PH (X2) 5
Co-pilot: 2LT Gatto 17 AM(x3), PH 3
bombardier: 2LT Mark Mason (Ace) 16 6.3 Am (x3) PH (X4) DFC 0
Navigator: 2LT Sergio Espinoza 6 0 AM 0
Flight Engineer: T/SGT Red Weyburn 1 0.5
Radio Op: M/SGT Sean “Sharpie” Sharpe 24 (LC) 2 AM(x4), PH X2 4
Ball Turret: S/SGT David Parker (Ace) 18 (LC) 9.8 AM (x3), DFC, PH 3
Left Waist: SGT Daniel Manning 18 1.5 AM (x3), PH x2 4
Right Waist: S/SGT Brian Searle 17 (LC) 1.3 AM (x2), PH 1
Tail gunner: Sgt Mario Mazzini 5 0.3 AM
Completed Tour: F/O Joseph Havens AM X 5, DFC, MiD X 2, PH (25) ACE – 9.9 Credits.
Fighters Encountered:
3 X ME-110
E/A Claimed:
1 T/SGT Red Weyburn
Bomb Run: DNB
Damage
None
Peckham points: 0
Available: Overnight
Casualties:
None
Mission 59 Pisa Rail line. (Mission Summary)
Take Off: Good take off.
Zone 2: A single Bf-109 sped towards us from 12 level but was intercepted by our fighter escort.
Zone 3: Both S/SGT Parker in the Ball and Sgt Mazzini in the Tail reported that they had lost the heating in their suits. T/SGT Weyburn took a quick look and it looked like the plane’s heating system had packed up. We decided to abort the mission and return home, dropping our bombs in the sea.
“Skipper – my feet are cold. I mean, really cold! S/SGT Parker called over the intercom.
“Yeah, my left foot is freezing as well and my left hand” Mazzini reported.
“I’ll take a look, Skipper.” Weyburn ducked down from the turret and checked the plane’s heating system. Faint wiffs of smoke were coming from it. “Looks like the system has blown, Skipper.”
“Can you fix it?” Hill called.
“I don’t think so, Sir.” Weyburn replied. “Looks like the wiring is fused. We’ll probably lose heat to the other suits soon.”
Hill cursed. His last mission and it looked like they would have to abort. If they were closer to the target they’d probably make it, but it didn’t make sense to risk frostbite among the whole crew, or risk flying at 10,000 feet without the protection of the Group.
“OK. Sharpie, tell group we’ll abort. Someone else will have to take over Lead. Mason, get ready to dump the bombs in the sea.”
“You gotta be kidding me! Sharpie muttered. “My last mission and it doesn’t count….!”
“Quit your bitching, Sharpie!” Captain Hill snapped.
“Fighter coming in at 12 level, Sir!” Espinoza called. “Oh! He’s been intercepted.”
Weyburn settled himself into his turret and suddenly saw a fighter dive in from 9 high. He opened fire and saw the fighter fall apart! “Jeez! I…I think I got one!” he yelled.
“Yep, you sure did.” Parker called from the ball turret. “Can’t see a chute, but the plane is going down. Now, get us home before I turn into a snowman!”
As we pulled out of formation another bf-109 took a pop at us from 12 level but was shot down by our escorts. T/SGT Weyburn was eagle eyed and spotted a fighter coming in from 12 high – he opened fire and shredded the cockpit, claiming a kill on his first mission.
Zone 2 Inbound: Another fighter was chased away by the escorts, two of whom follow us back to base. To make matters worse, our intercom system packed up.
Landing. Good landing.
Frustrating mission this one especially for myself and MSGT Sharpe who were on our last mission. Aborting before the bomb run means this one doesn’t count, and we have to go back up again…and maybe not for a Milk run next time. We should be joining SGT Drayer, S/SGTs Declaire and Chase, and Captain Wright drinking in the bar tonight but it was not to be. Mind you, we were luckier than some – Later I heard that Dangerous Critter had gone down. Another veteran ship lost and with it some crew who were on their last missions. T/SGT Weyburn looks set to be a useful member of the crew, trying vainly to fix the broken heat system. He also claimed a kill, for which he is awarded a half kill….which is strange as we were the only bomber there! Perhaps the fighter boys also claimed him?
Captain Hill
80th Squadron
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F/O Haven’s was lying on his bunk flicking through a comic book. He head the sounds of a crew returning and was amazed to see the enlisted men of the Hellzapoppin’ drop to their bunks.
“What happened?” Havens asked.
S/SGT Searle shrugged. “Gremlins. The suit heating went out and then the intercom. Mind you, the new guy bagged a kraut on his first trip. Maybe he’s going to be better than you!”
Havens laughed. MSGT Sharpe came stamping into the tent.
“Goddamn it. That was supposed to be my last. Now I’ve got to go up again. You can bet it won’t be a milk run next time. Goddam!”
F/O Havens went back to his comic book.
“Told you. It’s bad luck to pack before a mission.”
Go to hell, Havens!”
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Thoughts?