PECKHAM POINTS and Repair Times

[blaird]

Air Craft Damage:
The Peckham Point Table Will determine the extent of Damage to an Aircraft, However the extent of Damage will also determine how long an aircraft will be out for repair, in which case your crew will use one of the spare aircraft. However the Aircraft are first come first serve, and once a crew uses a specific aircraft it will become their spare of choice.

Peckham Points for B-17s: PeckPoints_B17_Mod_11_17-1.pdf (60.47 KB)

Peckham Points for B-24s: Peckham_Points_B24.pdf (114.3 KB)

BPec 0-2 Table
Total ...................... Repair ... 2d6 Roll*
Damage Points ....... Chance
1 - 249 ................. 100% .......... 2-12
250 - 259 .............. 50% .......... 4-7
260 - 269 .............. 42% .......... 2-6
270 - 279 .............. 31% .......... 6-7
280 - 289 .............. 19% .......... 4-5
290 - 299 .............. 11% .......... 5
300 + ...................... 0% .......... Cat-E
*2d6 range for repair


BPec 0-3 Table
Peckham Points Repair Times**
1 - 99 ............... Overnight Repaired (one day)
100 - 149 .......... Two days
150 - 199 .......... Three days
200 - 249 .......... Four days
250 - 299 .......... Five Days
300 plus ........... Category-E (automatically)

** Modifiers follow below
    - if two or more engines are out add one day repair time.
    - if both wing roots have three or more hits then add one day repair time.
    - for each tail flying surface (i.e. tail root horizontal stabilizer) that has three hits add one day repair time.
    - for every -2 landing modifier (landing on land only) add one day repair time.
    - for landing at a forward emergency airfield add one day travel time.
All modifiers above are accumulative.

Due to limited ground crews, repair times for Spare Bombers (aka Hanger Queens) is doubled.

Thanks to Jim Pink (Jasta6) from the 281st on Board Game Geek. for re-vamping the repair time on aircraft.

Spare Aircraft can be found here

From the Creator:

Over years of playing B-17 Queen of the Skies, we have flown many memorable missions. Some
have resulted in heroic efforts to keep a crippled plane flying back to England, others have resulted
in tragedy as a veteran crew succumbs to a "silver bullet" explosion. Add to those the number of
bizarre mid-flight events and you have a lot of memories.

Many of you have probably created formulas to rate the success of your missions. You know...bring
the crew and aircraft home safely and have that high percentage of your bomb load on target and
you get that great score. Sure we all have, but that's what HQ wants to know about. Pilots and
crews do not care about those numbers. All they care about is survival and that countdown of
remaining missions.

One of the aspects that the game did not seem to cover was "How much damage did your B-17
absorb on the last mission". In order to quantify damage, we identified every possible damage
result. We grouped them into categories and then we read all the research materials we had
available to us. In the end we created a Damage Point Table. Each damage result is assigned a
number of Damage Points (DP). The sum of the aircrafts damage points will tell you how tough the
mission was for the crew.

All of you can probably argue why some (maybe all) of these assigned numbers are not accurate,
but if you fly as many missions as we have with it you will find that it very accurately quantifies B-17
damage. These Damage Points do not affect the mission in any way. You do not need to worry about
summing the totals until after the mission.

Some missions you will have very little or no damage -- the Milk Runs. On others you will be in awe
of how much damage one of these big Forts can take and still make it home. Bruce brought one back
with over 600 points of damage.

Enjoy --- Mike Haley & Bruce Peckham

[crushedhat]

Note: Some values differ between the B-17 and B-24 Peckham Point tables, at least the versions I have. An obvious example is Superficial Damage: 1 pt for B-17, 2 pts for B-24.

[superbee]

I asked the following question on Game Board Geeks (posting as Gary Kessler) but have not gotten a response. So I will bring it up here.

In looking at the Peckham Chart used for assessing battle damage to a B17 following completion of a mission, I don't really understand how to interrpret the "engine hits" section.

I will give a few example situations to help explain my dilemma.

1. A B17 suffers an engine hit to #1 engine that results in "superficial damage." Is this 5 pts, or is it 20 pts. (each hit = 15 plus superficial = 5)?

2. If the same B17 suffers a 2nd hit to engine #1, resulting in another superficial damage result, how many points is this? Each hit plus repeat hit plus superficial for 30 pts?

3. How about if the 2nd hit on #1 knocks out the engine? Is it each hit, plus additional hit, plus engine out = 50 pts total?

[crushedhat]

If the engine is hit (first time) I give it 15 + either 5 (Superficial/NE) or + 25 (engine out). For all subsequent hits it's 10 (repeat hits) + 5 or 25 based upon the result. If there is a fire, then add the appropriate Fire damage (25/50/75). Yeah, engine hits are costly.

[crushedhat]

I also apply the same damage numbers if it is a Mechanical Failure.

[superbee]

Thanks 'hat !

[limburger59]

One thing not covered by Peckham Points is if you roll a modified “1” when landing. It states that your bomber is “ repairable by next mission”. That implies that there was some damage in the landing. I’ve always been tempted to add 50 points to the damage. (Of course that could make the bomber CAT-E, or the bomber may have been CAT-E before the landing.)

Your thoughts on whether a modified “1” when landing should result in any Peckham Points?

[crushedhat]

Not sure if you're talking QotS or TFT. In either case, unless the result is bomber destroyed I pretty much let the Peckham Point total tell me whether or not it is repairable. I would take any result that implies the bomber taking damage as a crash landing (Peckham Points = 60+3x2D6, 75+3x2D6 for a B-24: I've noticed in several cases the same damage on a B-24 incurs more Peckham Points that for a B-17). I still roll for crew injuries if the Landing Roll calls for them, but don't assess Pecham Points for them. Maybe I should?

[limburger59]

Since the Peckham Points state they’re for landing without the gear operable I’ve never applied them for a crash landing for rolling a modified “1”. That may be the easiest way. 

[crushedhat]

Yeah, I know it says "Landing Gear Inoperable," but I use it for any crash landing. Just seems easier than trying to figure out two different damage (QotS/TFT Landing Table results versus Peckham Points) systems. If we want to go with the Core Rules for landing results, then we should also go with the Core Rules for determining whether or not our bombers are ready for the next mission regardless of damage taken. The major difference between using Peckham Points versus Landing Table is the possibility of crew injuries on the latter, that's what I use it for.

[limburger59]

I'll need to digest this. Looks like a lot for Take-Off mishaps, especially as they are so rare. Yet, your Wound Recovery tables looked like a lot when you first created them and now I use those charts religiously.

I love Bruce Peckham's work. There are two areas of inquiry that I have with the Peckham Points and our campaign:
    1) On a modified landing roll of 1 what additional points should be incurred. I've puzzled over whether that roll is a "hard" landing or a "crash" landing. I'll go with crushedhat's suggestion for the time being, but am interested in your input, as repairing aircraft was your job in the military (right?).
    2) Repair time. Not a part of the original Peckham Points Chart. I believe they were a creation of jasta6 and I believe Jim had mentioned reworking them. I have thought about some modifiers that added extra days to the process, such as fire damage, but am interested in what both you and Jim would suggest.

[Deleted]

Lou, this would augment a roll during the take off routine that indicated a problem.  So if your roll on table 3-2 Take Off (TfT) indicates an engine issue you would then roll to this that is an enhanced table 3-3 Bomber Crashes on Take Off (TfT).  So the instances should not increase, unless your die rolls are having a bad day, and the results are just expanded on with an enhanced damage detail.  Appreciate any feedback though.  I'm one of those that  think having more detail adds to the experience and increases the immersion within the game.  At the same time I can appreciate trying not to make it a burden.

The additional damage I mentioned, as an example, would be for a collapsed main landing gear.  The aircrafts corresponding wing would take the brunt of the impact as it comes in contact with the ground.  It would then incur damage caused by that impact.  What I was trying to do was to show that "additional" damage caused by the impact that would require additional repair time.  As it is it comes across as if the airframe sustained some heavy "superficial" damage that is easily repaired, likely not the case.  So they damage caused by a collapsed nose gear/tail wheel would primarily cause structural damage but a collapsed or hung main would potentially cause much more.

I did a slight mod to the Peckman table that increases, slightly, to cost a various damage.  What it has shown me it does is that for some heavy damage it adds 1-2 days to the repair cycle.  For me it begins coming across as somewhat more understandable turn around times.  An example, a wing root hit may be accessible so for one the ground crew may be able to get to the damage and execute a repair.  For multiple hits though the ground crew may have to further dismantle the aircraft, or remove the wing, to execute the repair.  I have started working a ground crew add that would track your crewchief and his capabilities that would either hinder or improve your chances of having or not having a mechanical failure.  Maybe some more of that later if I get more involved with it.

I have gone back and researched more of the day in the life (DITL) of a mission.  The usual early morning rise, ground crew prep, ordnance load, crew prep, run up/take off, mission, landing, post flight debrief, maintenance capability/timeline, etc.  I have been wondering what parts of that would/could add to the "story" created by the game without becoming a drain on the gamer as they run through it.  Makes you appreciate the Dixon's of the world as they re-worked the QoTS foundation.

[jasta6]

Hay Lou, Yes, I added the time to repair to Bruce's work on the Peckham points chart for the 281st BG(H). I still need to get back to revising that a bit. I do agree that extra time for fire damage would be warranted. I will add that as a modifier in the next revision of the repair time table.

[limburger59]

Nolan -

If different, I do think the "hard" landing (modified landing roll of 1) shouldn't be as severe as a "crash" landing without gear. Of course if added there could be cases where both would apply??? 

My initial reactions:
> What is your rational for the additional damage for a Fuel Leak? Repairing or replacing a punctured fuel tank seems a lot more straightforward than some of the other System hits. Of course your experience factors in which makes me more curious.
> What is the rational for the supercharger failure being 15 instead of 10? Seems that those failures were common (in comparison) and that swapping out the turbo-supercharger for damage or preventive maintenance was simpler than the work involved in repairing other system damage.
> Personally I see the damage from fire increasing on a geometric scale as flames ate away at the air frame, weakening aluminum spars, consuming wiring, fuel and oxygen lines, while crew scurried to get extinguishers from further away from the fire location. That other damage is also why I see fire damage adding a day or days to the repair time. 
> Curious why you see landing with one gear down as not as serious as a belly landing with no gear? It seems that the belly landing avoids the wing tip of the non-deployed gear side from digging in, resulting in a ground loop, the wing being ripped off, fuel line severed and flames erupting.

I need to do some reading now to see what cases I find of belly landings - that I've read about - vs. landing with only one main gear that I can't recall being done on purpose with a B-17.

I know very little about the Liberator, besides the fact that they are ugly compared to the beautiful Queen of the Skies. I know that Bruce Peckham flew in Steve Dixon's B-24 campaign before modifying his chart for the B-24 so some of the variables there were the result of research.

[blaird]

Jun 28, 2020 15:54:56 GMT -8 @qprfan99 said:

What actually are Peckham Points?

they track the damage by point. I'll get the PDF converted into a jpg and into the top post.

Peckham Points for B-17s:


Peckham Points for B-24s:

[limburger59]

Jun 28, 2020 15:54:56 GMT -8 @qprfan99 said:

What actually are Peckham Points?

This point system to demonstrate damage taken, and to determine repair times,  was a creation by Bruce Peckham. Bruce has created a number of different variants for both B-17 QOTS and now TFT, but this damage point system is practically legend in the bomber gaming community for a decade if not longer.

[canziomarini]

Hi Sirs
a quick question. How do we rate (if we do) the various malfunctions that can happen during a flight, created by the Malfunction rolls of table 4.3A ?
i ask this because my B17F (woody woodpecker) had a malfunctioning fuel transfer pump in zone 3 outbound, but i can't find any indication of what this will be translated into peckham points
if i have to take a guess i would say that is a "system hit" (even if it wasnt generated by a "proper hit") so it is worthy 10 peckham points

also, my B24D (sundowner) had a suit heat system failure in zone 2 outbound that obliged the pilot to return to base. It's also that worthy 10 peckham point, since is a "system hit" ? as above ?
or are the Malfunctions just not counted in the peckham point system ?
thanks

tommaso gollini

[limburger59]

Nov 8, 2020 17:08:13 GMT -8 canziomarini said:

Hi Sirs
a quick question. How do we rate (if we do) the various malfunctions that can happen during a flight, created by the Malfunction rolls of table 4.3A ?
i ask this because my B17F (woody woodpecker) had a malfunctioning fuel transfer pump in zone 3 outbound, but i can't find any indication of what this will be translated into peckham points
if i have to take a guess i would say that is a "system hit" (even if it wasnt generated by a "proper hit") so it is worthy 10 peckham points

also, my B24D (sundowner) had a suit heat system failure in zone 2 outbound that obliged the pilot to return to base. It's also that worthy 10 peckham point, since is a "system hit" ? as above ?
or are the Malfunctions just not counted in the peckham point system ?
thanks

tommaso gollini

Some players use Peckham Points for Mechanical Failures, certain Random Events, or jammed guns that are permanently broken. Other players do not. 

Personally I do count them because it is a problem the ground crew will have to spend time fixing, especially engine failures. In both your cases your bombers will be ready to fly the next day, so it doesn’t negatively impact you. I am sure your pilots will tell their ground crew chiefs to pay extra attention making sure the bombers are ready for the next mission.

[canziomarini]

i will add them too, it's an issue they have to deal with (the ground mechanics) to it makes total sense to add them.
my B17 goes from 88 to 98 and the B24 from 0 to 10
they should be ready to fly anyway
thanks agains
tommaso

[crushedhat]

I count every damaged system (whether damaged by the Luftwaffe, Regia Aeronatica, or Gremlin Air Force), since no matter the cause, it needs to be fixed.

[wolfmanjack14]

I agree --- Peckham is a fix-it list for the mechanics no matter the cause!  I always include anything that is damaged whetehr fired on = flak damage- mech failure - what ever!